This is the tenth in a series of in-person, in-depth New Jersey Globe interviews with New Jersey’s members of Congress. The interviews will be published as-is, with editing for length and clarity.
This week, the Globe spoke with Rep. Donald Norcross (D-Camden), a five-term Democrat from Camden County who serves on the House Armed Services and Education & the Workforce Committees. The Globe sat down with Norcross to talk about organized labor, the indictment of his brothers, the revitalization of Camden, and more.
Previous interviews: Rep. Andy Kim, Rep. Chris Smith, Rep. Bill Pascrell, Rep. Rob Menendez, Rep. Bonnie Watson Coleman, Rep. Mikie Sherrill, Rep. Jeff Van Drew, Rep. Josh Gottheimer, Sue Altman (in place of Rep. Tom Kean Jr.)
New Jersey Globe: You’re a union guy, and that’s a lot of what you focus on in Congress. Let’s say, hypothetically, that in November Democrats run the table and get a trifecta again – win the House, win the Senate, win the presidency. What do you think should be on the agenda in terms of labor?
Donald Norcross: Well first of all, my district drives me – I think that’s important to remember. The district reflects a lot of the beliefs I have, and vice versa. But from a Labor Caucus perspective, first and foremost is the PRO Act, which updates the [National Labor Relations Board] and the [National Labor Relations Act], and brings it up to a standard for 2024-2025. That’s certainly something I care about.
You saw the tips issue – I actually started talking about this about four months ago, long before either presidential candidate talked about it. We always see these tax breaks for companies, for the gazillionaires that Trump talks about – how about for these working folks, the ones that get tips? I don’t agree with the way our system is set up – why are customers paying the employee? That’s the employers’ job. Until we get there, I thought this bill was a great way of addressing some of those inequities.
New Jersey has it, I’d like to see all the other states [have it too]: unemployment for locked-out or striking workers. I think it’s a great opportunity to help level the field. And listen, the minimum wage, my God. The disparity between what the minimum wage is and what it should be is so far out of whack. It’s time for America to come to grips that those who are making the least are being abused the most, and we need to change that.
So those are just some of our priorities. Depending on who’s in control of which level of government – it won’t drive what we believe in our hearts, but the ability to get something done.
Labor has been in the headlines a fair bit as it relates to the presidential election, like the lack of an endorsement from the Teamsters for Harris or Trump. What do you think is the role for labor in the Democratic Party going forward, as a lot of rank-and-file labor starts getting less comfortable voting for Democrats?
It’s interesting you say that, because when I grew up, we always associated the Democratic Party with the party of labor. And I still believe it is. But I think the further we get away from those days when it was on the forefront of everybody’s brain – that’s why we started the Labor Caucus, just to remind and be that voice for working men and women in organized labor. We’ve exceeded where I originally thought we could go as a Labor Caucus. We’ve been well-received across the board, not only from the labor unions, but from members who come to us for that information. Obviously, Hakeem [Jeffries] and leadership have been there for labor, but this just gives us the ability to say, “This is our focus. Not the things that the Progressive Caucus does, or the New Dems – we are strictly there for those who have collective bargaining agreements, who want to be labor-focused, and that’s what we do.”
In New Jersey, you’ve got a very strong Building Trades presence, and in 2025, a lot of them are splitting off from one another – they’re supporting different gubernatorial candidates. They’re having different opinions about that race –
But so far, they’re all Democrats.
So far all Democrats, but what do you think about them going in these different directions? Why do they have these different ideas about who would be best to lead the state?
What do I think about it? It’s called normal! That’s what they do. Listen, if we go back close to 20 years ago, when I was president of the Southern New Jersey AFL-CIO, we started a program called Public Officials with a Union Label, where we were going to get individuals from labor unions – it didn’t have to be the leaders, it could be rank-and-file members – to start taking part in the elected process. Because if you’re at the table, you’re not on the menu. When you’re at the table, they remember who you are. They always hear from the corporate interests, but they didn’t always hear from us.
What we’re seeing now is Democrats shaking out for who’s going to be the next governor, and each of the unions – whether it’s Building Trades or other unions – have their perspectives. There’s no question about it, a lot of that is regional preference: “I want somebody that I know from my part of the state.” I think it has more to do with that right now, regional [divides], than it does with their labor history. Because if they did, the fact of the matter is that when it comes to passing legislation and helping the men and women of organized labor, there is nobody who has a resumé even close to what Steve Sweeney has. But again, it’s not what they’ve done, it’s what they’re telling people they’re going to do. And so far, I love all the candidates, but there’s certainly one I believe stands above all the others, whose life has been devoted to organized labor.
Is that an endorsement of Sweeney? I don’t think you’ve specifically weighed in on the race before.
Is there a doubt of where I’m going to be? Does anybody believe I’m not with my high school buddy – the guy who spent his life in organized labor?
I have learned in this job not to take anything for granted until someone tells me it explicitly.
I am 100% for Steve Sweeney. Listen, I saw what he did in the State Senate firsthand – nobody comes close. Card check, project labor agreements, the list goes on and on, what he was able to do. And if you look at the history of the state, I don’t think there’s been another person who comes close to doing that. Obviously the governor had to sign those bills, so he certainly has been there, and there are many others that are tremendously helpful to passing these, but in terms of what Steve has done when it comes to labor, there’s no second.
One other South Jersey question: your brothers George and Philip were indicted this year in a state racketeering case. They’ve said, including in a brief on Tuesday, that these are politically motivated charges. You’re not implicated at all in this, but do you agree with their assessment?
I don’t know what they said [on Tuesday], you’re ahead of me on that. But I love both of my brothers, and we live in a system where they’ll have their day in court.
Do you, in general, think this is a targeted attempt by the attorney general to –
I love my brothers, and they will have their day in court.
This year has been defined by foreign policy debates over Israel/Palestine and Ukraine. You, like a lot of Democrats and Republicans, are a strong supporter of both Israel and Ukraine, and sometimes are more pro-Israel than a lot of your Democratic colleagues. Where does that position come from? What’s the origin of that strong support?
I grew up in Pennsauken with my brothers. I went to the nursery school at the Jewish community center. I am a Lutheran by birth, but the fact is, I spent my formative years at that Jewish community center, and I always maintained my relationships with not only the Jews, but across the board. My daughter, in college, got her bachelor’s degree, and her major was world religions; as a Lutheran kid growing up in Pennsauken, we weren’t talking about world religions. That just wasn’t on there. But it has been fascinating – my trips that I’ve taken around the world have introduced me firsthand to many of these. I count myself as a respecter of virtually every organized religion in the world. I think it’s a fascinating topic, and the one thing that brings them all together is, there’s a higher authority; whatever you call them is your choice.
So I have been to Israel two or three times since the [October 7 Hamas] attack. I was there two days after the attack – we were the first congressional group going in afterwards. I see what’s going on. Let’s be clear: war is a horrible thing, no matter where it takes place. But there is one group that has the power to stop this tomorrow, and that is if Hamas gives the hostages back – everything can change immediately.
I spent a week in Moldova and Ukraine a month ago. Ukraine, to me, is almost like a bad dream. People don’t remember what happened during the Second World War – “Oh, let’s stay away, Hitler’s not going to do anything, it’s okay.” You saw what happened in the Second World War for those burying their head in the sand. And here we are with Putin and his aggression and what he’s doing – and, quite frankly, his Axis of Evil, the new relationships with China, North Korea, Iran. We’re seeing firsthand how that impacts the United States.
So the support for Ukraine, to me, is important for the U.S. And the fact that we have Putin puppets over in the House who are refusing to deal with the Ukrainian issue is just stunning to somebody like myself. Ronald Reagan’s spinning in his grave watching this happen. And why are they there? Because Trump told them not to [support funding for Ukraine]! The amount of Republicans we had in support of Ukraine in the beginning was, I don’t want to say total, but it was damn near all of the Republican Party. Until Trump came out and told them they shouldn’t do it. It’s not about the facts, or communism – it’s because Trump told them not to. And I find that very distressing.
Is there a red line in the sand for what Israel can do, what Netanyahu can do, where you might look at them and say, “This has gone beyond what we’ll support”?
Let’s be clear: I assess every step, everything that goes on. It’s not like, “Gee, if they get here.” We look at it in totality to see what the circumstances are. When we see some of the difficulties we were having to come to a ceasefire, and you see the deaths that are taking place on both sides, it’s heartbreaking, and you want to make sure that, if you can, you bring that to an end. But my God, all you’ve got to do is release the hostages, and that starts us down that road. I don’t think we would be having this problem with Hezbollah had that happened a year ago. We support our friends, they have a right to defend themselves, but we all are accountable.
Your home city, Camden, is a city that’s gone through a lot of troubles. To this day, it does not necessarily have the most sterling reputation among New Jerseyans.
From the past, there’s no question about it.
Yeah, so how do you move past those perceptions? How do you improve the lives of the people who live there?
Almost 15 years ago, when I was in the State Senate, Camden was considered the most dangerous city in North America. The murder rate was up there, the high school dropout rates were astronomical, and most of the industrial parts of Camden had moved out decades before that. So I call it the three-legged stool: it’s about jobs, it’s about education, and it’s about security.
Now, crime hasn’t been this low since the late 60s, early 70s – a tremendous drop. The police relationship with those who live in the community has changed 180 degrees. When George Floyd was taking place, our chief of police marched with the community protesting what happened. That’s how far the perception of police – it’s no longer us against them, it’s us against the bad guys. Fundamentally, that has changed people’s perception. The crime rates are coming down.
Education: we are close to three-quarters for the number of schools that have been rebuilt. Camden High is brand-new, Woodrow Wilson’s going to be renewed. These are all things that are incredibly important. The dropout rates are down to 7% for a major urban area – that’s a big deal. Kids, if they choose, can now go to college. Everybody says, “More kids are going to college, that’s great!” But there’s lots of things they can do: they can join the service, they can go into a trade, or they can go to college. They’re all equal. If the only thing that we think of as success is that you went to college, I think we’re cutting ourselves short. Certainly for me, where I came from, I didn’t do that big Princeton College thing. I want my doctors to have a good education; we might even need a couple lawyers.
The final thing is jobs. The greatest social program in the world is a good job that pays you enough to take care of your family, have health insurance, and give you dignity at the end of your life. We’ve seen an influx of investment in Camden that has brought jobs. We started a thing called Camden Works almost ten years ago, which brought together the companies of Camden so that when there are job openings, the citizens of Camden and the surrounding communities get a chance. The employment rates in Camden City are the highest they’ve been since the Industrial Revolution, when we had RCA, Campbell’s Soup – do you know how many people used to be employed in our shipyard? Close to 3,000 people.
So: jobs, education, and we want to make sure that everybody has those opportunities.
This year has been a very strange year in New Jersey –
How about the entire country?
The entire country too, but specifically New Jersey has felt like it’s gone nuts. From your perch in South Jersey, which has a very powerful Democratic organization, what is your take on the way that this year has unfolded?
Firstly, you can’t start anywhere but to talk about how this is our four-year reflection point, with the country coming together to decide who’s going to be our leader. And quite frankly, that drives everything else below it. Joe Biden was the candidate, and he decided that he was going to pass the torch. I can’t say enough nice things about Joe Biden and what he’s done for working men and women – it’s been wonderful. But the time has come, he passed the torch to Harris, and now it’s Harris against the old guy who everybody used to complain about. Now he’s back from Never Never Land. Listen, I don’t have a whole lot of respect for Donald Trump. I think he is fundamentally a person that lies constantly. I saw what he did back in Atlantic City, back when I worked with the IBEW. He declared bankruptcy and wiped out small contractors on his project. I see that kind of guy, and he will do the same thing to America.
Obviously, we had a Senate opening that people weren’t expecting. Andy Kim’s going to be our next senator, I’m confident of that, and it will be good to see him sworn in shortly after the election so that he can get that little bit of a jump in seniority. Especially with a young man like him, he can do a lot for New Jersey, and I’m looking forward to that.
We look at the House races – you’ve got to start out by saying, I miss my two colleagues, Donald Payne and Billy Pascrell. That hurt. It was a really sad time. We swore in the new 10th district congresswoman, LaMonica McIver, on Monday – it was wonderful to see her, a bright, new, young, smart face from the city of Newark. But it was a sad moment. It reminded us of 30 years of Donald Payne, Senior and Junior. And Billy just hurts all of us. We miss him.
But we’re looking forward to the trifecta. I worked at the racetrack when we first rebuilt it, I love horse racing, and I’m looking for the trifecta and New Jersey can lead the way.