This is the eighth in a series of in-person, in-depth New Jersey Globe interviews with New Jersey’s members of Congress. The interviews will be published as-is, with editing for length and clarity.
This week, the Globe spoke with Rep. Josh Gottheimer (D-Wyckoff), a four-term Democrat from Bergen County who serves on the House Financial Services Committee and the Select Committee on Intelligence. The Globe sat down with Gottheimer to talk about New Jersey’s recent primaries, the war in Gaza, New York City’s congestion pricing pause, and more.
Previous interviews: Rep. Andy Kim, Rep. Chris Smith, Rep. Bill Pascrell, Rep. Rob Menendez, Rep. Bonnie Watson Coleman, Rep. Mikie Sherrill, Rep. Jeff Van Drew
New Jersey Globe: A few weeks ago, New Jersey held its primary elections. It was one of the highest-profile primaries the state has had in a while, for a variety of reasons. What were your takeaways from looking at the results?
Josh Gottheimer: I think, overall, the theme was common-sense Democrats had a big night. Whether you’re talking about the Pascrell race or the Menendez race, I think you saw people who had great experience, who had gotten a lot accomplished in New Jersey – I think Congressman Menendez has done a phenomenal job in his first term in office. So I think it was a big win for common sense.
One of the things that made this primary unusual in New Jersey was the fact that the county line was not around on the Democratic side. Back in the fall, you came out pretty strongly in support of the county line. Do you think it should come back in future elections? Are you still a pro-county line congressman?
I’m a pro-Democratic Party congressman. I believe in Democratic clubs and organizations – people coming together around shared values and ideas; helping recruit people and organize; winning and getting the word out, whether it’s about childcare or abortion or clean air and clean water or maternal health issues or gun safety. Winning is tough, especially in a place like New Jersey – getting the message out, organizing, getting on all those doors. It’s a place with multiple media markets. It’s a place that takes a lot of work to get across the finish line. Those organizations have always played a critical role in both recruiting great candidates and getting the message out. That’s why I’ve always really believed in Democratic organizations and Democratic parties and clubs.
But listen: at the end of the day, what I care about is making sure we fight for people, we get stuff done, and we work together. Whatever form that comes out, as long as we can actually get the word out about why it makes sense to vote for a Democrat and for the things we fight for, the things we believe in – that, to me, is most important.
Given the binary choice between the old style of using county-line ballots and the office-block style that was seen this year, which do you think is better?
I’m going to respect where it comes out in the courts. Again, I think, at the end of the day, what’s most important is making sure Democrats win. The choices couldn’t be clearer right now, whether you’re talking about reproductive freedom, whether you’re talking about gun safety, whether you’re talking about women’s health care issues more broadly, whether you’re talking about child care affordability, making sure we get the Gateway train tunnel done, that we get SALT restored, whether you’re looking out for veterans and seniors and others. For me, there’s very clear differences, and we need to elect people who are focused on getting stuff done, helping other people, fighting for other people, and clawing money back to Jersey. You look at the guy I beat [in 2016, Scott Garrett] – he didn’t believe in fighting for clawing money back from Washington to Jersey, he didn’t believe in grants. We’re up 357%, in terms of what we’ve gotten back, because we’ve actually worked with our local mayors and counties and elected officials in the state. It’s about whether or not you’re willing to work with people and get stuff done, and we need other people who do that. I happen to believe that we’ve got a lot of great Democrats who’ve been very helpful in getting stuff done for New Jersey.
Now that the primary’s over and we’re headed to the general election, aside from your own race, what contests are you watching most closely in New Jersey? What might you be involved in most closely?
I’ll do what I’ve been doing the last bunch of years, which is, wherever we think we need to be helpful to make sure we get Democrats across the finish line – people reach out and ask for help. My home county’s Bergen County, and Passaic County and Sussex County [are in my district]. So we’ll start there, making sure we’re helping other people. But I really think we’ve got to paint a very clear message to folks in Jersey of the difference overall: common-sense Democrats versus extremists.
Do you think that the dichotomy of moderate Democrats, extremist Republicans applies to New Jersey’s 7th district, the most competitive district in the state this year?
As you know, I’m not going to comment on that race. Because I’m the Problem Solvers Caucus co-chair, I don’t get involved in races where there’s members of the Problem Solvers Caucus. [The district’s congressman, Republican Rep. Tom Kean Jr., is a member of the caucus.]
On congestion pricing –
The congestion tax?
Sure, I’ll use your term. You got a big win on the congestion tax earlier this month when Kathy Hochul put it on an ‘indefinite pause.’ There have been headlines since then about different New York City politicians trying to undo that pause, or saying that Hochul doesn’t have the authority to do that – after this victory, what are the next steps on that from your side?
I think you’ve got to be a cop on the beat and watch it closely. It was a huge win for Jersey families, a huge win for the environment in northern New Jersey, because of the plumes of cancer-causing pollution that were going to be hitting northern New Jersey. We threw the kitchen sink at this and then some over the last five years. This was a huge fight, with lawsuits and FOIAs – we didn’t stop for a minute on this. I said we would fight until the very end, and when it was 25 or 30 days out, we got a stay.
I believe the reason why, ultimately, they made the decision wasn’t because they saw they were sticking it to Jersey families and robbing them blind and taking an extra 15 bucks out of their pocket everyday for their problems, for their woeful mismanagement. I think it’s because people, including their own voters, were saying to the governor and local elected officials there, ‘What are you doing? You’re going to kill small businesses in New York.’
What we need is more investment in mass transit. One of the bills on my wall is the infrastructure bill that I helped negotiate and pass – massive investment in mass transit, including electric buses, including New Jersey Transit and New York mass transit. We need to invest in the Gateway train tunnel, which I was very proud to help get done. That’s what we should be focusing on, and we should be doing it in a cooperative way – through the Port Authority, we’ve worked for 100-plus years together.
Since you’re mentioning funding for mass transit: had the congestion pricing plan incorporated some funds, or maybe all of the New Jersey-based funds, going towards New Jersey Transit instead, would you have been more amenable to that plan?
First of all, none of that was ever on the table –
Right, but in theory.
I don’t do ‘in theory’s, but I’ll say this. People were like, ‘What if they start throwing a couple of crumbs at Jersey from the revenue?’ My challenge is, you’re still sticking it to hardworking families. How does that nurse, electrician, teacher afford another $4,000 a year? Even if they were giving some money to mass transit, you’re talking about a huge hit on families who can’t afford this. At one point there were rumors that there was going to be a crumb thrown at Jersey – what if we throw a few bucks your way? My feeling on that was, are you kidding me? How does that nurse pay to get into the city? They don’t get that money.
I’m all about doing everything we can to make life more affordable for folks, which is why I have a belief that we should do everything we can to get those jobs in New York to come to New Jersey. Pennsylvania, New York, they’ve been stealing our jobs for years. I want people paying taxes in Jersey and not having to give their taxes to New York; I want them to be able to invest in Jersey, support our local businesses. I’m all about making life more affordable in New Jersey, and all this was going to do was make life miserable for a lot of our families.
You talk about the congestion tax, you talk about ‘moocher states’ and how New Jersey feeds more tax dollars in than it gets back. You represent one of the wealthiest congressional districts in the country. Is it not somewhat reasonable to think that your constituents would pay more into the system than they get back?
Well, they do. I just think that it’s completely out of control. Tell that to a family who’s having to deal with paying more now and struggling to get by. You can’t say to them, ‘Well, you know, this area’s better off.’ You may have some folks who are better off and who are creating jobs, but you’ve got lots of people who aren’t, and I talk to them all the time. Telling them, ‘That town over there is better off,’ is not going to make that person’s life better.
We keep losing people out of New Jersey on net. Compare our growth to other states – we’re not growing the way we should. We need to get more jobs and opportunity for more people in New Jersey, better-paying jobs. We’re going to get SALT back next year – we’ve been fighting for that for years, we passed it out of the House four times, and the red moocher states keep sticking it to us. Those are the kinds of things we can do to make life more affordable.
And I fight to get those dollars back for things like air packs or a new fire truck, so that those things don’t hit the local property tax line. I was in Teaneck two nights ago – we announced new grant dollars we got back for the fire department and cops, and the town manager opened up by saying we made life more affordable there because that was stuff they don’t have to pay on the local property tax line.
Whether you’re talking about child care costs or grocery costs, anything we can do to make life more affordable for people is good. And the more jobs we get to New Jersey, of course, the more revenue you get, and therefore the less you have to hit other people, other families with taxes. I think we’ve got to do everything we can to make life more affordable. Which is why the congestion tax really got under my skin – how are you going to do this to people? You’re not talking about charging them an extra dime; it’s $15 a day. There’s plenty of restaurant workers; it’s not like everyone sits around all day high on the hog here. There’s a lot of people who can’t afford these things, and it’s just not right.
Shifting to another contentious policy issue: you’re a very vocally pro-Israel Democrat, to the extent that you have taken a few votes in Congress that specifically contradict what the Biden administration has been doing and saying. Overall, do you think that President Biden has taken the right course since October 7th in Israel and Palestine?
He went there days after the war started; I think that they’ve been a great friend to – I’ll frame this whole thing a little differently. I work for the United States of America, and took a very clear oath to protect this country and the people I represent in this country, and so does every member of Congress. Hamas is a terrorist proxy of Iran. Iran is one of our enemies. They are working very closely with the governments of China, Russia, North Korea. This is the new Axis of Evil. These are our enemies.
I look at this purely for what’s good for America’s national security. Our enemies, these terrorist proxies, Iran’s proxies – Hamas, Hezbollah, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Boko Haram, the Houthis – continue to attack America. There was just another attack in the last couple of days in Iraq against Americans – against our servicemembers, against our bases. The Houthis in the Red Sea continue to attack Americans, our ships, our servicemembers, our carriers. These terrorist proxies, along with Iran – they hate America and democracy and what we stand for, more than they hate Israel. They don’t like our way of life. I love our country, I love what we stand for, the democracy we stand for and the values we stand for. For me, that’s what this whole issue is about.
To get to an end in the conflict in the Middle East, you’re going to have to not only crush Hamas and the terrorists, but you have to, first and foremost, make sure we do everything we can to get the hostages home, especially the Americans. There’s a hostage, Edan Alexander, who’s from my district. I have made it clear from the beginning, we need to do everything we can to surge humanitarian aid, because not only is it the right thing to do, but Hamas hates the Palestinians, the average Palestinian family. They’ve made it clear it’s not their problem. They’ve said it publicly. They use them as shields. They’re stealing the aid. That’s all part of their strategy. So when you look at this whole issue, you look at what’s best for America’s interests – the threats to our country, the threats to our way of life.
Israel has been a great partner because, among other things, not only is she a democracy and stands up for democratic values – whether it’s women or LGBTQ communities – but also has been a key in fighting terror in the region. A very important ally to the United States. That’s kind of how I look at this whole issue. Listen, you’re not going to agree with everybody every day on everything. But I think the Biden administration, on net, has done a phenomenal job and provided the resources that are critical to help fight terrorists in the region and our enemies. And that’s what I believe America’s responsibility is, whether that’s the Houthis in the Red Sea or Hamas or Palestinian Islamic Jihad. What they did on October 7th – there’s not even a question about it. I know some have questioned what happened on October 7th – there’s no question about what happened on October 7th, about just how heinous it was and how barbaric it was. As someone who’s seen a lot of the footage from that day, you can’t unsee it. I think that has shaped my views, but also the huge surge of antisemitism and hate at home, which is incredibly painful and not at all reflective of our values. I call it out when I see it, because I think we should call out hate in any form, whether it’s antisemitism, whether it’s Islamophobia, whether it’s anti-Catholic hate – whatever the hate is, you’ve got to call it out when you see it.
You are a moderate Democrat in a caucus where sometimes – although maybe not always lately – it feels like more of the energy is on the progressive side of the ledger. How do you place yourself in the modern Democratic Party as it exists now, versus how it existed when you were getting your start in politics?
I think of myself as more of a common-sense Democrat. I don’t say, ‘Well, I sit here, so here are the views I have.’ I, issue by issue, focus on what I think is important to Jersey and what matters to the families I represent. Because at the end of the day, you’re a representative. I think people want life to be more affordable, so of course I support SALT and fighting the congestion tax. I’m a huge champion of women’s health care and abortion and gun safety. I helped negotiate and pass the gun safety package last Congress, the biggest set of reforms in 30 years on gun safety. We did it on the PACT Act [providing aid for veterans exposed to toxic substances]. I helped change the rules of the House, years ago – and this was a fight – so that one member of Congress can’t make a motion to vacate. Kevin McCarthy changed that back, which undid him.
I think what you’re seeing in this Congress, interestingly, is more common-sense Democrats win. You saw it in Oregon, downballot, these district attorney races – in Oregon, which is liberal. In Maryland, the more common-sense Democrats won. In Jersey, I’d argue, the more common-sense Democrats won. George Latimer won this week, which was a very big win for common sense. If you look at my record, you could say that on a lot of issues, I’m as progressive as they come – I’m a huge leader on LGBTQ+ issues and have been since I got to Congress, that was one of the first bills I passed. I think it’s really issue by issue, you’ve got to look.
For me, it’s all about, do you get stuff done? Do you fight every day for people and for families? I don’t know where you put the infrastructure bill, which I helped negotiate, and the Inflation Reduction Act – huge advancements for the environment, historic on climate change issues – I don’t know where you put that on the line of labels. I think this is about what you fight for, and are you willing to sit at the table with anyone to get stuff done. And that’s a philosophical thing. I will sit at the table. I may disagree with you on 90 things, but if there’s a piece of legislation we can get across the finish line, I’m going to find how to get it done.
If you look at how we did the Ukraine package, I ended up working with Markwayne Mullin, a senator I work out with every day, who was an MMA fighter. We worked for months on helping get the Ukraine package done. We knew that we were going to have to figure out how to stop the former president [Donald Trump] from coming out and trashing it, because that’s how he killed the immigration bill, by doing that. We had to stop that. So the question is, could we get that done? That’s all by talking to people. Markwayne and I disagree probably on nine-and-a-half out of ten issues, but the question is, can you figure out the half issue? Can you figure out how to sit down at the table and talk to one another to get it done and figure out that common ground?
Any questions about your place in the Democratic Party or your ideology are taking place with the backdrop of speculation that you might run for governor in 2025. I know you’re not going to make an announcement to me here, but generally, is that something that you’re looking at?
Listen, I’ve got lots of people who are coming and being so kind and asking me to throw my hat in that race. I’m focused right now, as you know, on not only the race in 2024, but actually getting stuff done through the end of this Congress and fighting for folks. That’s where my focus will be until I make any future decisions. But I’ll always be fighting for Jersey, no matter what the race is.
Is it a future decision you’re considering?
Lots of people have asked me, so of course I’m thinking about it. But I’ll tell you this: what I’m thinking about the most is what I have to do to help the families of Jersey. At the end of the day, that is my number one focus. Obviously, I’ve got a re-election, but really I believe that elections are all about whether you do a good job or not. Are you waking up and doing your job? That’s what I’m doing everyday – I’m waking up and doing my job. And that’s how people will judge you, both for re-election and what they think about you for the future. Did you do your job? Did you get stuff done for them? Are you fighting for them and getting their back?