This is the third in a series of in-person, in-depth New Jersey Globe interviews with New Jersey’s 14 members of Congress. The interviews will be published as-is, with editing for length and clarity.
This week, the Globe spoke with Rep. Bill Pascrell (D-Paterson), a 13-term Democrat from Passaic County who serves on the House Ways and Means Committee. The Globe sat down with Pascrell to talk about ticket pricing reforms, the conflict in Gaza, his thoughts on potentially soon becoming the oldest member of the House, and more.
Previous interviews: Rep. Andy Kim, Rep. Chris Smith
New Jersey Globe: We’re in a new year. Congress has a lot of big items that it’s trying to deal with, a lot of big crises that it’s confronting. What in this year are you most hoping to accomplish? What do you think Congress will be able to do, within reason?
Bill Pascrell: My problem is that I always have too many things. When I get interested in something, we work on it. And if that means doubling up, that’s what you do.
We’re going to continue some of the things that we’ve already started. And that’s tax reform. Democrats have been talking about it; they’ve not been able to pass it. What I mean by that is, we have things within our tax code which favor certain parts of the population and disfavor another person who’s not making too much money in income every year, or perhaps living on whatever he gets from the state or the federal government. We need to change things like carried interest. Carried interest is something that people have been trying to change for the last 15 years. They talk about it, but we don’t get it done. I’m vehement about this – whether it was under a Democratic administration or a Republican administration, your record is your record. So I’m going to be working on tax reform. I want a fairer tax system for the folks who are not making $400,000 a year.
I know that there’s some kind of deal in the works right now; the Senate Finance Committee and the House Ways and Means Committee are negotiating a deal –
Well, they’re talking about it. We’ve talked about a lot of things in the past that never came true. But we’ve got to stick with them. I’ve stuck with things that may be minor to some people, like concert tickets. I started on that over 10 years ago. People need a barrel of money to buy concert tickets.
In a way, we’ve allowed these big companies like Ticketmaster to be scalpers. They’ve familiarized themselves with the process, and then they shaped it. That’s what happens when one part of the industry, like Ticketmaster and Live Nation – their merger means that they’re controlling about 85% of all business. If that isn’t a monopoly, I don’t know what is. And I opposed what happened in the Obama administration, which I was a big supporter of – I did not support their attitude about how they handled mergers and monopolies. Joe Biden’s got the right idea. That’s why you have regulation: in order to make sure we’ve got an even playing field. We don’t have an even playing field now.
People should realize that both in the primary market and the secondary market, we’ve been had. The prices are out of sight. That Taylor Swift concert, where people were paying thousands of dollars for a ticket, for crying out loud – that is not a rare thing in the business. Whatever the traffic can bear? No, you don’t have a right to charge anything you want. Deregulation sounds great – I’m not an over-regulator. But there’s got to be some meeting of the truth.
Small things and big things are important to me, it doesn’t matter. And I went to Congress to help my district – I didn’t go to Congress to change the world. That’ll come. Not that I’m not deeply involved in international politics, be it Ukraine, be it Europe, be it the MidEast. My record is my record. And I’m going to continue to do that.
I know that you’ve got the BOSS and SWIFT ACT addressing ticket pricing; there was a more limited bill that recently passed –
A bill passed through committee in the House; there’s some compromises in it. I don’t think it’s as strong, people have said it’s not as strong as the bill I put forth. But I think we’ll meet and get something done. But the court’s decision about breaking up Ticketmaster would send the word through the entire industry.
How are you feeling about the 2024 election, with Biden and Trump set for a rematch?
A guy like Biden is never going to have a big lead to begin with. He didn’t the first time he ran, and he’s not going to do it this time. 14 million jobs have been created, factories are booming in the United States. So what happened to this big recession we were going to get as a fallout of inflation? Thank God. The unemployment rate is still low, 3.7%. And the number of people looking for jobs is decreasing. But there’s still people for every job; there’s still Americans that could be working. Now you’ve got to match them up. People say, look at all the jobs available, these people don’t want to work. Most people want to work, for their own dignity. Those who don’t want to work, you catch up with them sooner or later.
But in the House, I have never seen the chaos that I’ve seen in the past year. Not just the joke about the speakership – here one day and gone the next. But the chaos it’s caused in terms of the lack of legislation to address what we need to address. What was it, 27 bills were passed last year? 22? Something like that. [27 bills became law in 2023.] So if you want to fight more than you want to cooperate and get things done, this is the place to be.
I do want to ask about a more controversial policy issue, which is the war in Gaza. That has divided a lot of constituents in your district.
Very much so.
Specifically, your decision not to call for a ceasefire.
I would put my record on dealing with the Muslim community, on working with the Muslim community for 25 years – I’d put it up against anybody. In fact, when I ran in 2012 in the primary, I was accused of being antisemitic. Then we checked the records; I voted for more money for Israel than my opponent, who happened to be Jewish.
I’ve tried to get the communities together. I’ve tried to get the communities to not be angry at one another. And because I, like most Democrats, did not sign the ceasefire resolution – I did that for a very important reason. In 2021, Hamas was involved in a ceasefire which they didn’t do, they never cooperated with it. We know what they’re like. And they made the attack. These [pro-ceasefire] people who are so stringent – and I can understand, losing somebody in your family. I’d probably do the same thing. When you lose somebody in your family, that’s a little bit different. All politics goes out the window. But the point of the matter is, Israelis did not attack Hamas. They did not attack Palestinians. Israelis were attacked. 1,200 people were slaughtered. So I supported Israel defending itself, which it always has a right to.
At the same time, in years past, who’s spoken out first about colonization, about housing pushing the Palestinians out, about allowing Israel to take over and build their own colonies? I’m the first one that spoke out against it. Ask [Indiana Rep.] André Carson, one of the leaders of the MidEastern sector in Congress. He’s an honest and fair man. He was part of those folks who wanted us to sign a ceasefire. It would have been the dumbest thing politically, and we would be further off getting to some kind of a solution. I was for the two-state position before there was a two-state position.
The irony of it is that, when I chose not to sign the resolution, I got more calls from the Jewish community. They said, ‘Thank you.’ I said, ‘You don’t know my history. I was on the Homeland Security Committee. We put together the Golden Dome to protect Israel.’ I did in Congress what I said I was going to do when I was first elected: try to bring people together.
There’s been speculation about potential political ramifications from this. The New Jersey Globe reported that André Sayegh, mayor of Paterson, is considering entering the race against you. Do you have any response to that speculation?
I’ve already announced that I’m running. I’m going to work my tail off like I always do. Nobody’s going to outwork me. Some people have addressed my age – you know, age is to be considered. But your character and who you are is more important, and what your record is. We all work on our records. Don’t say things unless you can do them, and unless you’re willing to fight for them.
With California Rep. Grace Napolitano retiring, you will soon be the oldest member of the House. It’s sort of a ridiculous question to ask, ‘What’s next for you, what’s your next chapter?’ But as you enter this phase –
I’ve had the opportunity to run for other positions, some might consider them ‘higher.’ I preferred to stay in the House. I made a commitment to the House, and I felt there were things I could help my community with. And I’m going to keep that commitment. Don’t make commitments unless you can work on them. I try to help, to do the best that I possibly can.
I’m very comfortable – not satisfied – in the position I’ve had. I was chairman of Oversight on the Ways and Means Committee, which was at one time the only committee in the House of Representatives. We deal with all the most critical issues, from taxes to health, social security, Medicare – that’s us. Whatever your tax policies are, they come out of our committee. I’ve put my two cents in, you can believe it. And when you go to my record, you can see: is this guy full of baloney, or did he really take a position on these things?
What’s the answer? Are you full of baloney or did you take a position?
Check my record! You make the decision. We’re good at pounding our chests; other people make the decision of whether we’ve done what we said we’re going to do. And nobody’s perfect. But you know whether a person is fighting for you or fighting for themselves. And I’ve been proud of the House of Representatives, even though in this time it’s a difficult thing to be proud of.
But you’re dealt a hand of cards, you play the hand. Or you go home – no one’s forcing you to run for office. Maybe I’d rather sleep later in the morning. But I like my job, and I think people know it. You can always tell whether somebody likes their job, or whether they’re going through the motions. I’m not afraid to stand up on my own, I’m not afraid to take a position that other people would not take. That’s what I’m here for. I fought with Obama when it was necessary; I fought with Joe Biden – who’s a personal friend – when it was necessary. That’s me. I’m from Paterson.